John McAfee

John McAfee talks phones that spy on you, running for president, being played by Michael Keaton in the upcoming movie, bitcoin reaching $1,000,000 and what he actually did to the reporter in Belize.

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McAfee is a household name, since John McAfee essentially invented antivirus software. He has worked for NASA, Univac, Xerox and Lockheed. In 2004 his net worth was $100 million.

He is currently running for president and his slogan is “Not sure what I’m doing but something needs to be done.” We discuss in depth what he believes is what truly makes a successful business, and how that slogan reflects his take on management. The two are surprisingly connected.

No phone—ever

If you have not followed him on Twitter, or not seen his youtube channel, you may still have seen his appearances on various news shows discussing cyber security. He was the first (by two years) to bring awareness of the use of your phone to spy on you. For this reason he does not own one and never will, he says. If he does, “They will find me,” he says.

Last year he made a prediction that bitcoin would reach $1,000,000 by the end of 2020. Does he truly believe this, and would he truly do what he promised, on national TV, if it doesn’t?

King of the Jungle

Michael Keaton is slated to play him in the upcoming movie, “King of the Jungle.” The movie details the two weeks the Wired magazine writer came to visit him while he was in Belize. Due to a picture taken by the writer he was forced to leave. John relays a very candid interaction he had with the writer, and the game of Russian Roulette he played in front of him—including loading the gun.

The next big thing

John alludes to something big that is coming, and how we should be very grateful for those who have created it. Though I normally prefer a flow of conversation, I do a little prying to get to the bottom of this global change that is imminent, and those who created it.

Note – The interview is filled with colorful metaphors—in other words a lot of F and MF Bombs. Explicit content for language.

Full Transcript of interview:

A Fascinating Chat with John McAfee

Mark Bradford: I’m here with John McAfee. Hi John, how are you doing today?

John McAfee: Hey, how are you doing? It’s the end of my day, so it’s perfect. After this interview, I’m free.

Mark: Well, that’s awesome. I won’t keep you longer than an hour. I normally start by asking what you do, and then we talk about who you are.

John McAfee: On what day? That’s a very difficult question for me. For the past 50 years, I have done as I please. I don’t know how else to say it. If I’m doing something which no longer interests me, I’ll walk away from it. If something wanders by that’s more interesting, I’ll follow it. Right now, what do I do? I get up in the morning, we go to a coffee shop by the Black Sea here, have a bite of breakfast, then we decide what to do for the rest of the day. That’s it.

Mark: That’s a perfect answer. Historically, you’ve done some amazing things. You worked at NASA, Univac, Xerox, and even Lockheed.

John McAfee: That’s true of all of it.

On Investing in People, Not Products

Mark: I find that I migrate towards people who I call “dual-brained”—people who can handle logistics but also have a really strong creative side. I would definitely use that to describe you.

John McAfee: You know, I’m good at logistics to a limited extent. You give me fewer than a dozen people and a space, I can make a company of some sort. But when it comes to what product or service is needed here, now, in this moment… that’s the question. If your idea is the same as yesterday’s, then there’s something wrong with the plan, because an entire day has intervened and you should have new information.

I know that sounds like chaos, and to a certain extent it is. But if you can get a dozen like-minded people together coherently and without too much friction, then magic will happen. This I know for a fact. When I used to invest in companies, when I had more money than God, I never invested in a product. I invested in people. I’d find a group of people and go, “fck me, you guys are actually working together. I don’t know what you’re going to be doing tomorrow, but I promise you, I want in on it.” All of my bets were massive successes. Zone Labs, for example. I put a million dollars into Zone Labs at the early stages, and 18 months later, sold the company to Checkpoint Systems for $400 million. I had no fcking clue what they were doing, but I didn’t care. I just knew that that group of people were f*cking smart and they managed somehow to communicate with each other.

Mark: So would you say it’s easier to invest in a small amount of people than a large amount?

John McAfee: I would never invest in a large group of people. You can’t get a coherent, fluid, and efficient group of more than a dozen, maybe 20 if you’re the best f*cking manager in the world, which I am close to. Beyond that is impossible. If you’re looking for excitement and the unknown, you invest in people who you truly believe are going to stay together and be successful, whatever they create.

On Running for Office and Surviving Waterfalls

Mark: To be clear, you are running for office right now?

John McAfee: Yes, absolutely. President. My second time.

Mark: And you’re running as a Libertarian, correct?

John McAfee: That’s correct.

Mark: I noticed that your tagline on Twitter says, “Not sure what I’m doing, but something needs to be done.”

John McAfee: That’s correct. I do not know what I’m doing. I have never known what I was doing. I’m just swimming with the stream and hoping there’s not a waterfall around the next curve. That’s been my life.

Mark: Have you encountered any waterfalls?

John McAfee: Survivable ones, yes, else I wouldn’t be here. But ones that I sure as fck wish I’d known about in advance. Let’s look at the one that everybody points to. I’m a month on the run in the jungles and towns of Belize while an entire army is chasing me with my photograph, only to escape into Guatemala. When we were almost at freedom, the VICE magazine editor who was with me put a photo up with my goddamn location, right within a few feet. Now we’re on the run in Guatemala, for fck’s sake. That’s a waterfall I wish I had known about.

Mark: People were able to pick up the EXIF data from the photo he submitted.

John McAfee: What idiot does sh*t like that? You can’t anticipate that. The best-laid plans of mice and men, as Shakespeare once said, oft go astray. Well, in my experience, they always go astray. The business world is no different. It’s slippery and frequent, with competitors, customers, and governmental regulations. This is why you want to invest in people who have the creativity, resilience, and talent to do what is necessary when that emergency crops up.

The True Job of a Manager

John McAfee: In many companies, management is incapable of changing direction. But if you have the right people, you don’t need managers. People just fcking take care of it. If a team gets too big, listen, you need a new company. I’m going to move you to different towns just so there’s no bullsht.

The world is becoming distributed, and a manager in a distributed environment is not someone who says, “You do this and you do that.” A manager in a distributed world has one function: to find out what obstacles there might be to you getting your f*cking job done and then removing them. He is the most lowest of all servants. That’s what a manager does.

On Bitcoin, Awareness, and a Secret Project

Mark: Speaking of listening to you, you have mentioned that Bitcoin will reach a million dollars by the end of the year. Is that correct?

John McAfee: Well, I’ve said that many times. First of all, no one in their right mind believes that anybody will ever eat their own d*ck, let alone on national television. But what did that do? We were in the doldrums. No one was paying any attention to crypto. Within a month after that little announcement, which was one of the most popular tweets in all of Twitter history, over 100,000 people were on board with crypto.

Mark: So you’re saying that’s a good move.

John McAfee: Was it not? It still onboarded over 100,000 people. I grew the movement, did I not? It’s my goddamn job as a senior citizen, isn’t it? To keep you guys alive, let you blossom. You find a better way to onboard that many people. That absurd statement sure did bring the attention we needed.

Mark: Do you feel that raising awareness is something you excel at?

John McAfee: That’s all I do. I’ve never done anything else. I’ve got a voice people listen to, and it tends to snowball.

Mark: I have to say, regarding that, you mentioned you don’t have a phone and you’ve warned about cybersecurity for years.

John McAfee: Which is why I can’t have a phone or an Alexa now. I cannot disable my Samsung television from listening to me, but I can sure as f*ck disguise where that television is located. My only concern is making sure that no matter what I say, they can do nothing about it if they cannot find me. If I have a phone for more than 10 minutes, I’m found. These are the ultimate spy devices which we willingly pay for.

But the change is coming, people. And it is a change from a quarter that you could not possibly have imagined. From an idea so radical and unique, and yet simple, that it will blow your mind. And it will be very soon.

Mark: Is there a beta?

John McAfee: Yes, there is. It’s out in the world now and it is, in fact, functioning. It’s being beta-tested right now. It is live and in the fcking world. Anybody who wanders by and happens to get mired into it… It is nothing harmful. It is the most free, kindest thing anyone could ever fcking do for you. It will be like an opening of a gate through which you may travel freely or stay where you are. Your f*cking choice.

Final Words of Advice

Mark: Before we go, I just want to make it clear to everyone that all links to anything you have will be in the article that comes with the podcast.

John McAfee: Here’s what works best. If you’re on Twitter, compose a tweet about this, and I will then retweet it with a comment. That gets the most views.

Mark: Perfect, I will certainly do that. If you have any other shout-out or anything you’d like to say, I don’t want to take up any more of your time.

John McAfee: I really appreciate all the chat. All of you seem like really nice people out there. I’m 74, and us old farts just cannot help giving advice to you young folks. But if I can only tell you one thing, this is what it would be: do only what you love and nothing else, ever. If you don’t love your job, don’t do the job. If you don’t love your family, you’re doing no service by hanging around in a miserable f*cking state. Do what you love and nothing else. And thank you very much for having me on.

Mark: Perfect. Thank you so much. You take care. I’m sure we’ll talk again.

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